Striking the Eternal Chord of Cosmic Country With Daniel Donato
Taking a long, strange trip from country music into the cosmos of jam
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[“Dance In the Desert” by Daniel Donato, from Reflector, continuing as bed]
00:19:03 Daniel Donato
“Think about how valuable oxygen is to us. Think about how valuable hydrogen is to us, but think about how valuable water is, you know, and then it's like, so you can find these two elements together, and then they create something that is greater than the two of them together.”
Welcome to Southern Songs and Stories, I am your host Joe Kendrick. That was our guest Daniel Donato, using an analogy between chemistry and making music with his bandmates. Creating music is a lot like a chemical process -- synthesizing ideas and inspiration from different music artists; fusing divergent styles into new and unique sounds; inviting one’s muse from somewhere out in the ether into the room where songs are then born.
From an early age, Daniel Donato proved himself to be a kind of musical alchemist, taking inspiration from country heroes like Merle Haggard, and jam band godfathers Grateful Dead, and spinning those into melodic gold that shines brightly on songs like the one you are hearing now, “Dance In The Desert”, from his third album, Reflector. Still in his 20s, Daniel Donato has quickly made a name for himself as a kind of musical mystic, a master of the telecaster and a favorite in the burgeoning cosmic country scene.
I spoke with Daniel before his show at Salvage Station in Asheville, NC at the end of his winter tour in February 2024, where he spoke in depth about his conviction that his life’s work is a service to listeners, his ever-present muse, playing with Bob Weir, and surprisingly to me at least, being an angry kid who was an avid wrestler not all that long ago. All that and a lot more, including more music from Daniel Donato in this episode of Southern Songs and Stories.
[SSaS theme song and intro by Corrie Askew]
The title of this episode is “Striking the Eternal Chord Of Cosmic Country With Daniel Donato”, and it refers to when Daniel said in our interview that a certain song struck an eternal chord in him when he first heard it. That song is neither a Merle Haggard nor a Grateful Dead song -- you may be surprised to learn what it is, so stick around to find out what other key influence is part of Donato’s singular brand of cosmic country.
I asked Daniel about his comments that the theme of Reflector is one of duality, pairing on one side three chords and the truth with its analogue of bravery and exploration, while he puts himself in the middle:
00:03:14 Daniel Donato
“I don't know if I've put myself there so much as much as I've I've found myself there, you know. And I I just try to keep it the music to be, as is truthful, beautiful and good expression of the personality that I was given. You know and and however that lands, I just have total faith in. Complete faith, as much as I can conjure in any given moment, which seems to be an escalating scale, as I tend to as I have more experience and I could walk in the way in life of faith. I can the amount of faith that I can put into anything that I do, which is really an astounding measurement that I've been able to observe and see change just within the past couple of years.
00:04:03 Joe Kendrick
You you talk about how, with your music, it's like you mentioned that personality as a vehicle and I had written it down and I forgot to bring my notes. So I'm kicking myself. Ohh no, but personality as a, a vehicle. And then, then then that extends to being sort of.
00:04:24 Daniel Donato
That seems fine.
00:04:31 Joe Kendrick
Like a vehicle for for Soul, I think something to that effect
Daniel
100%.
00:04:35 Joe Kendrick
Can you explain that to us and and tell us? Like what is that personality? Is it something that you can turn on and off? Is it something that you can step outside of?
00:04:46 Daniel Donato
I don't think so, I -- and I'd be interested to hear other people's ideas, ideals and ideas, if if they would have an injection to say that maybe you can, as far as I can understand, I I don't think it's possible to step outside of your own personality, you know, remote viewing it or anything like that, you know, maybe something like that. But when it comes to expressing yourself. You're born with a personality and there's this great neuroscientist named Andrew Huberman, who he has science that essentially says that everything that that is physically expressive of one's being. There's an arc to it in life to where you you reach a certain peak and then it starts to diminish. And as you get older, ultimately up until to when you're you know when the roll is called up Yonder essentially, right. But personality is only in an ascending regime, it it never stops developing and changing and and and it it never stops expressing itself and it never stops growing and and it it never stops becoming more you. You know and
00:05:58 Daniel Donato
You know, you think about it when you know you're probably much more you because of all the experience that you've had with your personality at this age than when you were at 10, even though you were in there. Now you have all this experience in space and time with this personality, which is something that you're, quote UN quote born with. So I'm under, I'm under the belief that personality is something that is transcendent of space and time. And that it is. We're given it for a reason.
And there is the parable of not putting the light under the bushel.And which essentially is saying, you know, let the light that you are shine to the to the highest degree that it can regardless of what the external world may say and that will get you in trouble a lot and will get you misunderstood a lot and they'll get you in uncomfortable situations a lot. But I think it's worth it to to to to put to render onto yourself that you know that kind of a thing. I don't think you can really get it. Outside of personality. I think you can change it and you and you could add to it and help integrate it. But I don't think it's something that you can really get rid of or step outside of it.
00:07:09 Joe Kendrick
It seems like you're very aware of that push and pull the yin and Yang, as you said that the you know you can't let your personality be, everything you have to be open at the same time.
00:07:13 Daniel Donato
Oh yeah, I tried. It depends. It depends how open you are as a person. I think you know. You know, I was born a very open person and and and so that'll express itself in in a lot of ways. And then there's, there's also a lot of areas in my life where I observe that I'm not very open. And that's just fine by me.
00:07:42 Joe Kendrick
So as you go along. How and you're getting better at what you're doing all the time. How do you still tap into that? That sort of that root of being a beginner of, of that joy, of finding things for the first time.
00:08:00 Daniel Donato
Enter, you have to enter the Kingdom as a child, right? That's like the and that's a great luxury to keep a provision in your mind, for when it comes to operating with an intention to enter the Kingdom as a child and you know and the the the best way that I've been able to find that I can maintain a a a connection to it is by reminding myself that all of everything in life essentially can be framed as service.
You know the golden rule, right? Do unto others as you would we we all know it. That's essentially a service based approach, which is the which is the opposite of self assertion. So the lack of self assertion right that to me always helps me go it always does it, it never fails.
When I can remind myself that what I'm doing is for a service for others. That is really nice and this might be a humbling fact, but there are there are rippling effects. Probably in eternal measures it would be safe to conjecture that that. That you know, when you have a positive attention and you're trying to serve people with, with everything that you have, you don't know how great that is and how great that can be and potential.
You know, I I think a great example would be, you know, all the people that are taking inspiration from great heroes of the past, you know, I doubt Buck Owens or Merle Haggard ever thought that you know, in 2024, people would be really inspired by their music and and, you know, and and and taking the spirit that they put into their records and allowing it to, you know, influence other people's records, you know? So. So that's kind of the thing for me that I'm always trying to do is just realize that I what I do is a service to others and you know you mentioned getting better I the the the converse is something better would be would be worse and I I I just wonder if it's if it's if it's even more nuanced than a then it's a better or worse thing where it's perhaps just more truthful.
You know what I'm saying? Because it's not like Bob Dylan's a better singer today than he was when bringing it all home came out. But it, you know it's and and the reason I think about these things in that way is because I've been doing this for over half my life, and I'm probably gonna be doing it for the rest of my life. I'm lucky enough. That's all I'd ever want to do. And I can't help but think that I would. I'm I'm trying to put all my focus into just being more truthful and truth kind of transcends. The duality I think it I think it comes, I think it informs the duality of of of good or worse, or or or evil or or or good or anything kind of transcends that. The truth does, because it's existent through both of them.
You know, you either have truth, you have the lack thereof, but it's still observable. So that's the thing that I'm always trying to to, to understand and try to seek out what it is. And I don't think it's as easy in all moments, as I used to think it was to what is the truthful thing here? What is the truthful intention? That's all I try to serve is the truth and and and then inherently other people are are a part of that service.”
[“Lose Your Mind” by Daniel Donato, from Reflector, excerpt]
That is a bit of “Lose Your Mind” by Daniel Donato, the song that begins his album Reflector. Its lyrics hint at some of what is going on in Daniel’s mind, which is a lot.
00:11:32 Joe Kendrick
“It sounds like you might think on your own personal truth. A fair amount. Do you
Daniel
All the time
00:11:37 Joe Kendrick
Do you ruminate on, say, the nature of consciousness, for example?
00:11:42 Daniel Donato
Ohh yeah. 100% yeah, the nature, yeah.
00:11:46 Joe Kendrick
It all seems very strange to me, like I can't quite come to grips with this is who I am. That's sort of. That sort of backdrop is, is never far away from my day to day.
00:11:49 Daniel Donato
I think it is. That's great. I think that's, you know it's it's lovely. I feel the same way all the time. I feel the same way all the time. That's all I think about, really.
You know, even when I am doing temporal things or thinking about things I need to get done today, the kind of eternal eye is always the thing that informs those does your daily space and time things, you know, that's all I think about. I think it's all I've ever really ever think about, thought about and and. And then when I got into music that I was able to connect with the part of my personality that was needing to express itself in a physical way and you know, I can express myself to music way better than I can with English language. I can discover things about myself through the way I would express myself through that you know that's harder to do in conversation. It's possible you have a deep conversation with somebody, or you have a conversation with yourself by thinking and which is hard to do.
You know, you ever try to sit down and think and and and be discerning with yourself? It's hard. Not easy. You know, when you play music. I when I play music, I can. I can discover things about how I feel. While you know while doing that and then inherently that adds to the the account, that is my experience currency you know and it just grows and grows and compounds and compounds you know.
00:13:24 Daniel Donato
Yeah, man. Nature of consciousness. I -- there's a lot of great explanations out there that I've read and I'm I'm curious to hear them all, so if anyone listening wants to submit their idea, send me an e-mail. It is just daniel@danieldonato.com I'd love to hear what they think about it. You know. Yeah, cause some people think it's nothing and some people you know, some people think it's God. It has something to do with consciousness. Some people would say the universe, some people would say, you know, there is no God there. You know the universe is without God. We would say, you know, they'd rather say the universe than God. And I don't know about all that. You know, I I don't know if it's really possible for us to know. I think it's probably greater than our finite minds can understand.
00:14:04 Joe Kendrick
Right. Yeah, regardless of what your, you know, religious beliefs are, yeah, I would throw out there, that could the universe really have happened by accident?
And cosmologists will tell you that the difference between the universe happening like it happened as we know it now versus not happening, is so infinitesimal. That is, it's unfathomable that it could have happened without some purposeful intent.
00:14:40 Daniel Donato
Intelligent design. Yeah, I I I'm a believer in intelligent design. I I think it's very I think it's intellectually linear. It makes a lot of sense, you know, and also which universe are we talking about? That's something that people you know. And when people say don't believe in God, it's like, well, what part of God? Yeah, you know what, like the part that you've learned from other people?
00:15:01 Daniel Donato
Yeah, well, that's like most things. Yeah, you, you know, you learn, you hear things that other people say that don't necessarily sit with you well, and then you have your own experience and then you develop your own idea about it. I probably I I think it's, you know, physically everything points to the for me that I think this whole trip is is one of an individual theology, regardless of whatever you say you are or what you aren't. You know, and you need classifications of people. You you need to say, even with music you need classifications of genres and stuff. But the music I make is just Daniel Donato music.
And you know, and then when I get with my band, then it turns into cosmic country. But the thing that comes out of my guitar is tails. And a lot of music. And you know, I have, I have my own thumbprint. You have your own thumbprint. You have your own DNA Helix. I have my own DNA Helix. So why wouldn't we have our own relationship with the first source and center of of of all that is? You know there can't just be a couple you know groups more or less that. All these people could fit into that. That doesn't make any sense to me. So you know, and that's the thing I I I think about music that is so fascinating. Because when you when you come to a show.
And this this is this idea that I'm about to say, led me to think about this because if there's 100 people in the audience and there's four people on stage. They're physically are 104. Show is happening, because of the way the notes will hit you. Like in terms of even just a wavelength, like if you're standing in the back of the room, my G note is going to sound and feel different to you than it does to me because I'm right by my amp.
You know there's 104 shows happening, so why didn't they? Didn't I? I would leave myself to think that there's probably 104 religions happening in that room. You know, everyone has a different idea of what's going on now and and and that's where I think the the concept of the a brotherhood or sisterhood or just I like to call it childhood, that we all share together. I think I I I think all of that.
That's the great luxury that we have here is we can share ideals and values and truths with each other through stories and through art and through dialogue and through love. You know and and and connect with each other while we're all on our own trip. You know we're all just like our own ships passing in the night.
00:17:29 Joe Kendrick
How does this play into your songwriting? Are you? You know, it's any one method to it or are you just waiting for the muse or how does that usually work?
00:17:42 Daniel Donato
I love the, I love seeing the personifications of the muse like in terms of like how she, you know, she. It's oftenly depicted as a a female character or some kinds like even like in Greek culture and all that. And I love that. I you know, it's all. I never turned it. I can't never turn it off. I'm just always thinking of things. And it just really, whatever feels truthful to me in, in, in a, in a less abstract sense. I I I just sit down every day and just work on songs like I always have a couple songs that I'm working on and I'll, I'll sit down for like an hour a day when I'm on the road, it sometimes more and I'll just go through songs like I'll read through lyrics as if they're a story, for they go to before they go to music.
I'll work on the music a bunch. They bring it to the band and then there's a compromise and negotiation that has to happen there, just like anything external in the world.
And then there's a whole new level of truth that is accessed once everybody else's personality is alive through the spirit of the song. You know, that's like the magic thing. Or part of it, probably. So I'm just always working on it and playing around with it listening to it.
00:18:56 Joe Kendrick
Yeah, it seems like your band is the not so secret sauce. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:01 Joe Kendrick
They're incredibly important.
00:19:03 Daniel Donato
Yeah. Well, I think that's how, you know, even with chemicals like. You know, think about how think about how valuable oxygen is to us. Think about how valuable hydrogen is to us, but think about how valuable water is, you know, and then it's like, so you can find these two elements together, and then they create something that is greater than the two of them together. Right. And so I think the same thing happens with personality. If you can get the right personalities together, they create something greater than the individual personalities would be able to conjure through their own endeavor in a singular sense. So if you can get those four together, it it might even compound into 12.
You know what I'm saying? So yeah, man, I mean, my band. I'm very lucky to have my band. There's every night. If not at least three times a show, I think I can't believe I get to play with these guys I really can't. She's just brilliant. Absolutely astounding, you know? And and I I have the I have my, my, my old bandleader, Don Kelly. More or less just through working with him, I was able to to learn and experience. What it what it means to surround yourself with the band that is of a certain frequency. And then I went and had a bunch of other experiences with band leaders were not as aware of the necessity of that. And then I got to play with a bunch of bands where the frequency was different. But I personally I would say lower. You know.
00:20:33 Joe Kendrick
Probably not, guessing with Bob Weir though. From the sound of from what I heard on that.
00:20:39 Daniel Donato
Playing with Bob was wild. It was like playing chess with Bobby Fischer. Except music is an intellectual that but. It it was like very much like I made a move that he knew the move I was gonna make and already had another one planned, challenged me with another one, you know? And it it was just -- well, after actually after I played with Bob that night at the Orpheum, that's when I was. I solidified Reflector as being the title for for this record you know cause he was he was reflecting right back at me my intention.
You know, I'd bend something really hard and then he would hit the top three GB and E strings with like a like a dominant 7 at 9. Something really cool, you know. Like whoa, you know you knew what that meant, and then you had a voice thing to to complement that and reflect it back at me. And then he would go to like a D minor when the songs in G, You know has a whole new mood, you know that's Robin McCoy Tyner stuff comes from, I think you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.”
[“Darlin’ Corey” by Daniel Donato, live at The Grey Eagle 03/12/2022, excerpt]
Daniel Donato has some songs that he comes back to time and time again in his shows, this being one of them: “Darlin’ Corey”, a song first recorded in 1927, and since then put on record by artists ranging from previous Southern Songs and Stories guest Amythyst Kiah as well as artists like Bill Monroe, Harry Belafonte, Doc Watson and Old Crow Medicine Show, to name a few. And speaking of Doc Watson and Old Crow Medicine Show, you can check out previous episodes of this series on Doc as well as Ketch Secor of Old Crow Medicine Show.
This version was recorded in Asheville, NC at the Grey Eagle Music Hall on March 12, 2022, and is shared here via archive.org.
I asked Daniel what attracts him to songs like John Prine’s “Angel From Montgomery” and “Darlin’ Corey”:
00:27:22 Daniel Donato
“I think they have a spirit. There's a spirit of truth that that, that they have. That that speaks to my personal spirit of truth, you know, and they turned me on musically. They inspired me and I I can't help but notice that the more I I I try to play things that that inspired me and they and then they come through my own personality. There's an authentic reality that's created there and that helped and and a lot of other people find value in that.
And I can tell really fast if I like something or not. You know, I'm sure you can.Hmm. Yeah, well, isn't that weird? Yeah. Yeah. It's a strange thing, really. It's you're more or less it's. It's almost like something is telling you. It's like, you know. And so I would hear the, you know, and I heard all those songs when I was playing down at Roberts Western world when I was a teenager, when I, you know, from 14 to 19 years old. I discovered all these songs. Discover all of it.
Mm-hmm. You know, and I would never have known about any of this, had not been for that one honky tonk in Nashville and my dad and I stumbling in there one day and him taking me every weekend to go discover all these songs. You know, because these these are, you know, old traditional songs that a lot of people don't really know or, you know, not “Angel from Montgomery”. But, you know, darling, Cory tumbling, tumbleweeds, songs like that you know. These are essentially folk ballads, public domain.
00:28:54 Joe Kendrick
Yeah. Yeah. Well, one that's definitely not a folk ballad that I hear that you might be working on is a certain Guns and Roses song.
00:29:03 Daniel Donato
This is this Internet I don't get where this. Not Paul, like, started this, by the way. I know he started it.
Joe
Was it “Paradise City”.
00:29:11 Daniel Donato
Jesus Christ.
00:29:11 Joe Kendrick
That's, so that's that's what I came across and, and digging around for, for tonight to talk to you is like ask them about if they're going to work this up.
00:29:20 Daniel Donato
Yeah. It's so funny, man. Our community is so funny. It's so. You know, it's so beautiful to really witness that. I couldn't sing. Axel Rose is like I don't have that kind of a voice. I could play Slash, though I would wail on some Slash any day. But I Can't Sing. Axel, rose. You know I have to. Maybe Nathan could sing that. But that's not even his voice, it's more falsetto. Maybe one day, maybe if you could do like a bluegrass version of it, but that song I heard that song when I was 12, and it struck this huge eternal chord in me. It was just the sound of a the the the chord progression just sounded very free and soaring and vast and and truthful, you know. So that's probably where that came from you know.
00:30:05 Joe Kendrick
you've been watching any Lithuanian basketball.
00:30:10 Daniel Donato
Ohh no I haven't.
00:30:13 Joe Kendrick
I saw you with the shirt on stage in one of your videos and I I had to think. OK, so there's the connection with the Dead and and and and you've mentioned about loving sports at least as a youngster.
00:30:14 Daniel Donato
Yeah, yeah. Oh, of course. I wrestled. Yeah, I wrestled. My daddy got me into wrestling. I was a really angry kid. I had a lot of energy and I need and I was very competitive and I wanted to work really hard and so he put me into wrestling. It was great for me that he put me into wrestling and into chess and those were just great avenues for me to express my personality as a, as a young boy.
00:30:49 Joe Kendrick
Yeah, I can't imagine you as a angry five year old.
00:30:54 Daniel Donato
Yeah, I. But you just gotta talk to my mom. She would be able to tell you exactly how I was an angry five year old, you know. Something got integrated, as Freud would say. You know, I was able to integrate a lot of my anger in my just drive. I'm very driven. You could ask anyone in my band this like, I'm very driven, like into an unhealthy degree, like, you know I'm I I cause I'm doing this for my life and I will die. You know, I'm the I'll die for this. Like, this is what I do is this and this. What I've this is also what I feel I was. I I came into this world to to discover and create and learn and serve as this music. So I you know I do it for my life to the highest degree that I can conjure on any given evening, some more than others.
You know, so I had a lot of drive and I still do. But when I was younger, I don't know what it was. But the moment I found music. Like right away, like the anger just in in the drive. I I I look at it more as drive. But there is anger that's involved in drive and anger is a good thing. It it should. It shouldn't be you know put away into the shadows because then it turns into the dragon with three heads, which isn't good. You don't want the hydra knocking at your door, so the second that I was able to really feel that eternal settling with music where I really felt like that's what I I could do this through the rest of my life. I just I was almost instantly able to channel it all the drive into that. The anger kind of dissipate. But I still have my days. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Yeah.”
[“Sugar Leg Rag” by Daniel Donato, from Reflector, continuing as bed]
Putting a bow on this episode on Daniel Donato with another new song from Reflector, the instrumental “Sugar Leg Rag”.
Thank you for listening! We are thankful you are here, and for spreading awareness of this endeavor. It is as easy as telling a friend and following this podcast on your platform of choice. From there it takes just a moment to give us a top rating, and where it is an option, a review! It makes a big difference because the more top reviews and ratings we get, the more visible we become to everyone on those platforms, which means that more people just like you will connect with artists like Daniel Donato and hundreds more we have profiled that are at your fingertips.
This series is a part of the lineup of both public radio WNCW and Osiris Media, with all of the Osiris shows available at
https://www.osirispod.com/
. You can also hear new episodes on Bluegrass Planet Radio at
https://www.bluegrassplanetradio.com/
. Thanks to everyone at the Salvage Station for their hospitality, and to my friend Greg Gerald for taking photos of our interview. Thanks to Corrie Askew for producing the radio adaptations of this series on public radio WNCW, where we worked with Joshua Meng who wrote and performed our theme songs. I am your host and producer Joe Kendrick, and this is Southern Songs and Stories: the music of the South and the artists who make it.